Hayden for hard rock or metal

Does anyone have experience with Hayden? I would like him to sing hard rock or metal. I can sometimes only do this if he sings higher. In a normal and lower register he sings very harmlessly. I tried it with the 4 vocal modes: Soft, Clear, Heavy, Powerful. But I can’t get any useful results.
Is there a trick or best practice?

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I tried it too. Until now without satisfying results. Funnily enough, I’ve had the best results with Natalie so far. :slightly_smiling_face:

One way I have for Hayden is to harden him. I’m a bit crazy in singing and I like to sing in the C1-C2 octave. I can’t sing any of these notes with normal vocal cords, but I use fake vocal cords. These fake vocal cords are commonly used by metal singers and rock singers for raspy high notes and the technique is called “Growl”. The tones do not have a smooth progression like when using normal vocal cords, and the simulation is provided for this technique by the “Growl” script, which can be downloaded from the link: “GitHub - crlotwhite/SynthV-Growl

Sorry, but I don’t have Hayden (I don’t own it), but I have tried it with Asterian.

Thank you for info, if I’m successfull I’ll let you know here

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Too bad that it’s not Hayden. Hayden doesn’t have a growl

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Have you tried the script and the various settings that the script has? Hayden doesn’t growl (Asterian over C2 doesn’t growl either), but the script can reduce the perfection of the singing as needed. You can use another singer for that part of the song and if it goes well with him, then in manual mode bring back Haydn. If you only have Hayden, then Lite Asterian and Lite Genbu are available for free. Or try a singer an octave higher. Or if Hayden is comfortable with an octave higher, then transfer the set notes (in manual mode) an octave lower (CTRL D). The ideal is to play and try and sometimes it will work out. Or give him a sample voice in wav converted to midi and have Hayden sing the notes.

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Recently, SV has been updated repeatedly and has come close to meeting our needs. Generally speaking, I think it’s still difficult to use SV’s various singing voices for Hard Rock or HM. Especially when you compare “growling” with real HM singers, don’t you think it sounds inferior? I will be releasing a new song on February 22nd, and it will be in a more melodious direction, even if it’s HR or HM. A technique I often use is to have a song track an octave lower with the same singer on a separate track. :grinning:

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Thanks for the tip, I’m currently experimenting with the script and it’s very interesting

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Good points to mention, my friend :+1:

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Is there a script or parameter to make the voice sound more powerful?

There are parameters - Pitch deviation, Vibrato Envelope, Loudness, Tension, Breathiness, Voicing, Gender, Tone Shift, Rap intonation.
And they can be changed according to the automation curve during the whole song. Also, these curves can be used throughout the song for the Ai singer’s vocal modes. Described in detail in Claire - the unofficial manual.

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Yes, these parameters I know already and also the very good manual

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You have to bear in mind that Hayden is just not a hard rock vocalist.
For all this is clever software (the best) the singers can only adapt their singing style to a degree just like any natural singer
Sounds like you need NineZero for your needs.

Thanks for the info, but Ninezero is too nasal for me and doesn’t have a strong voice (it’s too thin), I like Hayden’s voice better overall. I’ve come further now. I now group the individual parts of my song and per group I can adjust the voice the way I want. E.g. softer in the verse and stronger in the chorus. The software itself is great :grinning:

The best masculine VB for hard rock is 9Z. If you dont like him, since he is very particular, the next best option is Saros. Saros is warmer, but very versatile. IMHO Saros is the best male VB atm. For my songs (all hard rock) I change between 9Z when I need more raspy and agressive and Saros when 9Z is too much and a warmer tone is a better fit.

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IMO - As far as sounding realistic/natural - I haven’t cared much for the male English SV voices I’ve heard so far - but Hayden is tempting - close to decent (Kevin before him). I don’t do metal but I think he can do boy band and pop rock styles pretty well. The other ones mostly seem too cartoon like - or really weird dramatic sounding - like some dude mimicking opera.

Growl isn’t the right thing - there needs to be an original vocalist sampled, or parameter that can add rasp. Raspiness is a common thing in male voices - while the females can get away with being pure (without it). A lot of guy singers can transition and add/reduce raspiness on different parts. That would be something to look at in terms of sampling the sources. In a traditional sampler mindset you could set up less/more rasp in layers controlled by velocity switching, In AI it can probably be a smoother transition - controlled on the parameter timeline level.

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I find it quite natural that Hayden’s voice - but I haven’t used it yet - sounds different in different pitches. Real voices do, too, as you know, and you also know that “usually” metal vocalists do sing higher than “normal” singers of classic pop and rock of the 70s and 80s. Phil Collins f.e., who sounds quite high, mostly sang up to g1, on his “Serious live” CD he let some parts which went a little bit higher sing by the backing vocalists. James LaBrie sings often up to c2, now and then up to e2 or f2. f2 is also reached f.e. in Dokken’s “Lightning strikes again”. (It is the same f for a man like it is the f3 of “Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen” in Mozart’s “Zauberflöte” for a woman.) When LaBrie sings an octave lower, he also doesn’t sound like metal.
So I think that the key of a song should be chosen according to the singer’s voice. Let him sing in the range where he sounds as you like! The others have to adapt to it, or find a compromise (guitar - riffs and open strings).
For metal, I choose Saros. Also Jun is apt for metal. I uploaded a song with Saros here (“Bleeding Heart”). I’ve recorded a song with Asterian which begins as a rock song and ends a little bit like metal, dependant on the range of the melody - if you’re interested I could upload it. For “growling” (but I would define it different from the definition of gauzde) or screaming I use the Rap function, combined with iZotopes Vocal Synth. But I’ve done only one song with growling so far - if you’re interested I could upload it…
I don’t think that Ninezero sounds more like a metal singer than Saros and Jun. He sounds more “raspy”, yes, but has less intensity on the high notes.

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There is no gauzde definition for Growl, it’s just my idea of how to use this technique for my possibilities. The Growl technique belongs entirely to singing in Metal, but singers in other areas of music also use this technique. I don’t know much about Metal, I just listen to a song here and there. I move in the singing position of a deeper bass, that is, I am in the marginal area of music and also of less interest to the listeners. I don’t mind, because it’s important for me that I enjoy it. And I also enjoyed the previous post and I agree with it in many ways.

I got iZotope’s Vocal Synth for free with other already paid apps from iZotope that I already used a lot, but I didn’t get into Vocal Synth until I tried it for a while and found it misleading for real singing use it. But that’s probably just my ignorant assessment of the app’s capabilities, so I’ll be keeping a close eye on what I learn about Vocal Synth here.